Comments on: There’s No Such Thing As a Dumb Child http://theclassroom.ca/2007/05/theres-no-such-thing-as-a-dumb-child/ Thoughts and Resources for Teachers Sun, 08 Aug 2010 19:56:49 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Danny http://theclassroom.ca/2007/05/theres-no-such-thing-as-a-dumb-child/comment-page-1/#comment-648 Danny Mon, 28 May 2007 19:53:42 +0000 http://theclassroom.ca/2007/05/27/theres-no-such-thing-as-a-dumb-child/#comment-648 Like you, I do see both sides of this coin. On the one hand, accountability measures are a part of life and especially a part of government. It provides data for everyone involved which can then be used in planning and budgeting. In addition, it can be used to help kids get the help they need. For example, if a child tests 2 grade levels below their peers, the PAT data can be used as evidence for providing extra educational support for that child. Finally, as a teacher I must admit that when I taught PAT grades I made absolutely sure that I covered every stitch of the curriculum, and the reality is that when I did not teach PAT grades, I did not focus as much on covering every single outcome. Perhaps I should have, but I did not. Human nature has taught me that we all need accountability measures. When you know there won't be a police car on the freeway, it's a bit easier to press harder on the gas on the way home from work than when you know there will be photo radar, right? Not that teachers in non-PAT grades are slackers by any means - it just focuses a person sometimes. That all said, I never enjoyed teaching LESS than when I was teaching for the PATs. As much as I loved teaching grade 6 students, it was excruciating and highly stressful in terms of the pressure I put on myself and the kids to perform on those exams. And this was in a school where I had a great principal and supportive parent group - imagine how much worse it could have been for me, not to mention for the kids! My son has a diagnosed learning disability and his grade 3 PATs further reinforced in his own mind his lack of abilities. The grade 3 teacher aligned many of her report card descriptors with grade 3 standards consistent with the PATs, not with what my son was capable of doing. Therefore, the report card and the PAT results told us more about what he could NOT do than what he COULD do or what his strengths were. I have never enjoyed teaching more than when I left the PAT grades because my focus shifted from the practice exams and the curriculum documents to creating meaningful, stimulating, engaging learning experiences for my students. It is very difficult to focus on both of these aspects which, for me were at opposite ends of the educational spectrum. Like you Shane, I see merit in the PAT tests for what they are, and roll my eyes when the results are pubished in the newspaper for the entire province to misinterpret. I wish that different, more meaningful measures of accountability and student achievement would be investigated, but the fact is that this would likely be very cost prohibitive and politically risky for it to ever happen. I admire those in the profession who can teach the way they've always taught and not worry about the exams, because I never could. Like you, I do see both sides of this coin.

On the one hand, accountability measures are a part of life and especially a part of government. It provides data for everyone involved which can then be used in planning and budgeting. In addition, it can be used to help kids get the help they need. For example, if a child tests 2 grade levels below their peers, the PAT data can be used as evidence for providing extra educational support for that child. Finally, as a teacher I must admit that when I taught PAT grades I made absolutely sure that I covered every stitch of the curriculum, and the reality is that when I did not teach PAT grades, I did not focus as much on covering every single outcome. Perhaps I should have, but I did not. Human nature has taught me that we all need accountability measures. When you know there won’t be a police car on the freeway, it’s a bit easier to press harder on the gas on the way home from work than when you know there will be photo radar, right? Not that teachers in non-PAT grades are slackers by any means – it just focuses a person sometimes.

That all said, I never enjoyed teaching LESS than when I was teaching for the PATs. As much as I loved teaching grade 6 students, it was excruciating and highly stressful in terms of the pressure I put on myself and the kids to perform on those exams. And this was in a school where I had a great principal and supportive parent group – imagine how much worse it could have been for me, not to mention for the kids! My son has a diagnosed learning disability and his grade 3 PATs further reinforced in his own mind his lack of abilities. The grade 3 teacher aligned many of her report card descriptors with grade 3 standards consistent with the PATs, not with what my son was capable of doing. Therefore, the report card and the PAT results told us more about what he could NOT do than what he COULD do or what his strengths were.

I have never enjoyed teaching more than when I left the PAT grades because my focus shifted from the practice exams and the curriculum documents to creating meaningful, stimulating, engaging learning experiences for my students. It is very difficult to focus on both of these aspects which, for me were at opposite ends of the educational spectrum.

Like you Shane, I see merit in the PAT tests for what they are, and roll my eyes when the results are pubished in the newspaper for the entire province to misinterpret. I wish that different, more meaningful measures of accountability and student achievement would be investigated, but the fact is that this would likely be very cost prohibitive and politically risky for it to ever happen. I admire those in the profession who can teach the way they’ve always taught and not worry about the exams, because I never could.

]]> By: Mr. G http://theclassroom.ca/2007/05/theres-no-such-thing-as-a-dumb-child/comment-page-1/#comment-646 Mr. G Mon, 28 May 2007 16:04:42 +0000 http://theclassroom.ca/2007/05/27/theres-no-such-thing-as-a-dumb-child/#comment-646 However Lisa, very compelling arguments can be made for teaching test wiseness - and how that helps develop critical thinking skills. It's the rumoured cases where there is more then just teaching to the test that worries me. The stories of the teacher who looks at each student's work as asks "are you sure about that?" or the "approved" reader who uses inflection to help a student. I've even heard of cases where "at risk" students get "special" supervision during the exams. It's cases and abuses like this that invalidate the whole process. Yes we get our numbers up - but if the numbers are false, then what good are they? However Lisa, very compelling arguments can be made for teaching test wiseness – and how that helps develop critical thinking skills. It’s the rumoured cases where there is more then just teaching to the test that worries me. The stories of the teacher who looks at each student’s work as asks “are you sure about that?” or the “approved” reader who uses inflection to help a student. I’ve even heard of cases where “at risk” students get “special” supervision during the exams. It’s cases and abuses like this that invalidate the whole process. Yes we get our numbers up – but if the numbers are false, then what good are they?

]]> By: Lisa http://theclassroom.ca/2007/05/theres-no-such-thing-as-a-dumb-child/comment-page-1/#comment-645 Lisa Mon, 28 May 2007 05:21:10 +0000 http://theclassroom.ca/2007/05/27/theres-no-such-thing-as-a-dumb-child/#comment-645 Wow! This is a hot topic with me! As a Strategies teacher, I know I'm teaching very intelligent students that have just come across difficulties in their learning. I also understand the incredible amount of baggage some kids come with on their backs when they come into the classroom. And if it were just for results on the provincial achievement tests that determined my students ability (let alone the status of my job), we would all fail! The tests are mostly multiple choice which really actually focus on reading comprehension skills - the exact problem most of my students suffer from. Sit back and hold a conversation with them and you will find yourself delving much deeper into issues and ideas than you would with most kids their age. Add to that I am positive my students will grow up to be successful contributing members of our society. But, the dreaded achievement exams show themselves every year, and my students and I all lose sleep just worrying about how we will appear to the rest of the world. Is this a fair stress to place upon them or their teachers? I have heard horror stories of school boards that actually pay their teachers in relation to how their students achieve on board exams. Nobody would want to teach anything but the quickest and swiftest learners! I know my students are very intelligent, but just need to show their colors in other ways. On the other hand I know, practically speaking, projects that appeal to the multiple intelligences would take far too much time and money to try to compile and compare. But I really feel that the tests the students have to take are very unfair. It is not that my students do not know the information that is being tested, it is that they process it differently and must show it differently. However, the tests are reality. So, we do what we can, and sadly "teach to the test" which is so against my teaching philosophy. I resort to teaching the kids "good test taking skills" which really means they hardly have to know what they are being tested on, and then practice, practice, practice old tests. What does all that really prove? Hardly how good a learner each one is, or how well they can memorize facts. I don't know what the answer is, but it seems that the provincial exams are not collecting the true information they are setting out to find. Wow! This is a hot topic with me! As a Strategies teacher, I know I’m teaching very intelligent students that have just come across difficulties in their learning. I also understand the incredible amount of baggage some kids come with on their backs when they come into the classroom. And if it were just for results on the provincial achievement tests that determined my students ability (let alone the status of my job), we would all fail! The tests are mostly multiple choice which really actually focus on reading comprehension skills – the exact problem most of my students suffer from. Sit back and hold a conversation with them and you will find yourself delving much deeper into issues and ideas than you would with most kids their age. Add to that I am positive my students will grow up to be successful contributing members of our society. But, the dreaded achievement exams show themselves every year, and my students and I all lose sleep just worrying about how we will appear to the rest of the world. Is this a fair stress to place upon them or their teachers? I have heard horror stories of school boards that actually pay their teachers in relation to how their students achieve on board exams. Nobody would want to teach anything but the quickest and swiftest learners! I know my students are very intelligent, but just need to show their colors in other ways. On the other hand I know, practically speaking, projects that appeal to the multiple intelligences would take far too much time and money to try to compile and compare. But I really feel that the tests the students have to take are very unfair. It is not that my students do not know the information that is being tested, it is that they process it differently and must show it differently. However, the tests are reality. So, we do what we can, and sadly “teach to the test” which is so against my teaching philosophy. I resort to teaching the kids “good test taking skills” which really means they hardly have to know what they are being tested on, and then practice, practice, practice old tests. What does all that really prove? Hardly how good a learner each one is, or how well they can memorize facts. I don’t know what the answer is, but it seems that the provincial exams are not collecting the true information they are setting out to find.

]]> By: Mr. G http://theclassroom.ca/2007/05/theres-no-such-thing-as-a-dumb-child/comment-page-1/#comment-644 Mr. G Mon, 28 May 2007 04:09:55 +0000 http://theclassroom.ca/2007/05/27/theres-no-such-thing-as-a-dumb-child/#comment-644 For the record: I personally have helped write questions for the PATs in the past. I do understand the value of them, I just wish people would make sure they looked at the information in context. All assessment can be valuable - we just need to be aware that no one form of assessment can tell us everything we need to know about a child. For the record:
I personally have helped write questions for the PATs in the past. I do understand the value of them, I just wish people would make sure they looked at the information in context. All assessment can be valuable – we just need to be aware that no one form of assessment can tell us everything we need to know about a child.

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